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Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.02 19:38:00 - [1] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 02/01/2009 19:38:41 It is high time there were more shiny pretty ships for me to waste money on, so I decided to make up/suggest some tier 1 and tier 3 faction BS. =) Anything not mentioned specifically is unchanged from vanilla version. Gallente Navy Hyperion layout: 8/5/7 st/ar/sh: 12750/12000/11250 sig. str.: 27 Rokh Navy Issue layout: 8/7/5 st/ar/sh: 11250/9375/12750 sig. str.: 29 Abaddon Navy Issue layout: 8-5-8 st/ar/sh: 12000/12750/10500 sig. str.: 25 Maelstrom Fleet Issue layout: 8-7-5 st/ar/sh: 10500/11250/12000 sig. str.: 23 Gallente Navy Dominix 10% bonus to drone hitpoint/damage per lvl changed to +1 extra drone controlled per lvl drone bandwidth: 250 Mbit/sec st/ar/sh: 9961/9316/8203 sig. str.: 25 Scorpion Navy Issue layout: 6-8-5 hardpoints: 4 turret/5 launcher 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range changed to 10% bonus to shield hitpoints per lvl st/ar/sh: 8203/8203/9961 sig str: 28 Armageddon Navy Issue 5% RoF bonus upped to 7.5% mass: 110 mil. kg drone capacity: 100 m3 drone bandwidth: 100 Mbit/sec st/ar/sh: 9316/9961/8203 sig. str.: 19 Typhoon Fleet Issue layout: 8-5-7 hardpoints: 5 turret/5 launcher st/ar/sh: 9316/8887/8540 sig. str.: 21 sig. rad.: 300 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.02 22:13:00 - [2] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 02/01/2009 22:15:30 Originally by: Deva Blackfire I like how you doubled dominix damage yet managed to remove drone bay from armageddon :). Beg your pardon, but I did not double the domi's damage. In fact, I did not even double the domi's drone damage. The domi received 33.33% increase in drone DPS (10 drones compared to 7.5 drones effective). However this comes at a huge effective loss in drone capacity (as you now need 2x the space to carry a full load of any given drone) and it is now more vulnerable to smart bombs as smartbombs hit ALL drones and the drones individually have significantly less HP. While the effective total DPS gain by the faction arma is slightly less than the faction domi, I believe it more than makes up for this in the fact that it's turret dps is significantly increased. I did not simply give another slot or turret to the tier 1s because I was looking to make them a little bit more interesting than that. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.03 00:10:00 - [3] Originally by: Bobbechk OMG.... alltho the idea for new faction BS is approved! Out of curiosity, what is your problem with it? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.03 00:35:00 - [4] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 03/01/2009 00:35:58 Originally by: Washell Olivaw there is no chance at all of a +1 drone per level bonus coming back on anything sub capital. The number of extra drones brought into space due to faction Dominix would be more or less inconsequential and their effect on pvp lag would be practically zero, as they would be very rare in pvp. I thought about this myself and decided it really would not be an issue. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.03 01:03:00 - [5] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 03/01/2009 01:05:20 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Tbh all id want to see is a little more grid/cpu/capacitor/shield/armor/hull and maybe odd slot on all ships. And new PAINTJOB. Redeemer is ugly, Imp geddon is not :) I want dark skin for Arma. I personally feel that grid/cpu are the trickiest of areas to increase without risking making the ship OP. If you increase a bonus, such as the arma's rof bonus,, you basically know what the end result is: pulse geddon with 20% more dps from the turrets. In general the module combination will stay the same, but the performance in some area (tanking, dps, etc.) is increased by a known amount. Adding slots w/o increasing fitting is almost as complication free as while it still leaves room for unforeseen fittings, the potential for an unpredicted OP setup popping up is largely reduced because sacrifices will generally have to be made to be able to fit that extra module into the same cpu/pg. When you increase grid/cpu you are messing with something that involves a great number of possible combinations, and that is where predicting balance gets really tricky. As far as HP bonuses, most of the ones I put up have the standard 50% bonus across the board. The scorp and phoon are the only two where I did not do this. On the scorp I went 50%/37.5%/62.5% (st/ar/sh)to further increase it's passive/buffer shield tank capabilities (and if I have done the math right, they are extremely impressive) and I made the phoon 50%/62.5%/37.5% to give it a little nudge towards armor tanking. If CCP didn't want to do something like this and ended up going with more vanilla faction boosts like the current tier 2 BS and my proposed tier 3, that would certainly be fine. I simply liked the idea of having ships that were a little more unique than just more base HP and an extra slot. The domi gets the novelty of spitting 10 drones (along with more DPS), the arma becomes even more of a turret induced **** platform, scorp becomes a ridiculous passive shield/shield buffer tank and the phoon gets a myriad of boosts, including the ability to put the majority of it's weapons in either missiles or turrets, another mid and a slightly reduced sig radius (which may or may not need to be dropped from 300 to 290). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.03 03:13:00 - [6] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 03/01/2009 03:16:34 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Well thing is your version will never happen: 1. arma = overpowered (becomes HARDEST hitting BS out there, outdamaging every blaster platform) 2. domi = becomes lag generator platform (there is a reason why +1 drone per level was removed and damage bonus put instead) 3. scorp = useless (ask people how often they need "uber tank" ships) others i dunno 1) That arma will not outperform faction mega/hyp significantly more than the vanilla arma outperforms the vanilla mega/hyp, if at all (and weren't you just complaining about my navy arma?) 2) as I pointed out, because it is a faction BS the lag generation will be close to zero. Did you read what I wrote? 3) Uh, uber tank ships are needed quite a bit. Bait, mission running, etc. I absolutely love my 300K EHP plated abaddon. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.03 06:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Roemy Schneider i'm with the "OMG" guy when it comes to that domi idea - comes close to the moros in terms of drone insanity and that one at least cant move around that easily Should I explain it again? It isn't even close to the moros in terms of "drone insanity". It's a 33% drone dmg boost with significant downsides. You couldn't even hold a full set of ogres and gardes in the drone bay... Quote: and i raise you another "errrr" when it comes to the 5 lows on the scorpion, combined with the HP bonus to the then faction-HP It has 8 mids, means no more mids. Extra low = extra shield power relay = 31.5% better passive tank. Get it? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.03 07:34:00 - [8] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 03/01/2009 07:35:56 Originally by: rgreat You will need ALOT of dronebay.... Yes, as I said it makes the navy domi much less capable of fielding a wide variety of drones. It's hard to tell whether it would need more dronebay or not. I think giving it much more would make it somewhat OP, but it might need a little increase. Something like that is hard to determine without actually being able to test it though. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.03 17:15:00 - [9] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 03/01/2009 17:17:27 Originally by: Washell Olivaw A year ago I would have agreed but the navy faction ships are a dime a dozen now. Think of how many navy megas their are in space as a percentage of ships in space. .5%? .25%? Less? Now think of the percentage of ships in medium to large scale PvP battles that are any faction BS. .01%? .005%? The effect on server load would be almost nothing. Still, that isn't to say CCP wouldn't simply refuse to do anything0 that increased server load, no matter how small. Besides, I made these to amuse myself. CCP saying, "wow Let, great job! We'll seed those on SISI right away, LOL!" is about as likely as winning the lottery. Originally by: dojocan81 your ships have the wrong attributes .... caldari has always the highest amount of shield, amarr the highest amount of armor ... gal between but more armor and min more shield think about it Um, that's exactly how the attributes are... Quote: not to mention your domi is to way imba ... again, think about it I'm not even going to go into this again. No, it isn't, go read what was written above. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.03 17:51:00 - [10] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 03/01/2009 17:59:50 Originally by: Deva Blackfire And now you are slowly turning it into abaddon. Difference between arma and abaddon is VERY slight - aba has more turret DPS, arma more drone DPS. By refocusing arma to gun DPS you are pretty much creating abaddon and removing armageddons "unique" ability (especially when you want to drop its drone bay to 75m). The abaddon's advantages do not really lie in it's turret DPS advantage, which is just over 7%, they lie in it's greatly increased alpha strike, key 4th mid and amazing buffer tank. Quote: at above example arma is overpowered (remember amarr ships can easily hit up to 50km). I can tell you lowsec would fill with gank fit armas You don't need to "Remind" me of what range amarr BS can hit with scorch. Thanks. And no, low sec would not fill with gank fit faction armas. A pirate or two in rancer or another major pipe might get in a navy arma instead of a navy mega during a large gate camp, but that is about it. Quote: especially when tier1 faction BS would be cheaper than current tier2 Possilby, but not necessarily. Prices are heavily influenced by demand, not just LP cost. Quote: Would it make me happy? Hell yea - i would fly them over t1 battleships. Thing is - when you look at "balance" side its so wrong its not possible. So lightly saying you would fly a faction arma over a standard arma in PvP (I would assume) makes me think you really haven't thought about what that means. Quote: I did read. And i say it again: no way in hell CCP will reintroduce drone bonus. Remember tier1 = cheaper, thus you will see more faction domis than faction megas. And faction megas are already abundant. Read my reply to the above guy. Quote: especially when using ship in RR gangs. And i can tell you - this one looks awesome for RR gangs (hislots free for reps, better drone damage, better buffer). ...You honestly think people are going to start doing faction BS RR gangs? Right... Also - atm only one sub-cap ship has +1 drone/lvl bonus. Guardia-vexor which is collectors item. Yep, and that would make +1 on a navy domi a lot of fun, wouldn't it? Quote: Tbh it would be much easier just to boost damage to 15% instead. 15% bonus to drone hp/dmg would probably be more at risk of OPness than +1 drone, but yes, it would probably be more likely to happen. Again, none of what I put in that first post is likely to happen anyways, so I did what I would like to see. Quote: Or play with slots (add some grid so domi can mount heavier guns for example) Not as fun, and like I said, I made a point on the tier 1s to do more than that. Quote: Like i said: tank ships are NOT fun. They might be funny for 1-2 missions or engagements. After this they get dull. How often do you see rattlesnakes? And no, its not because of pricetag but because of their useability Lol, I would argue it is first and foremost because of their pricetag and them being pirate BS. This relegates them to missioning and collector's items and as they aren't the best missioner, they aren't used for that much. Secondly, the tank on the snake is not even close to the tank this scorp could pull off in dps tanked OR EHP. Quote: maybe boost ECM bonus to 20% and add lowslot to fit something resembling armor tank. Hell even 2 lows and you get ultimate ECM boat (which is way better than widow too ;p). In my opinion the last thing EVE needs is another pwnage ECM boat.
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Uh? Reading comprehension problems? I wrote i would fly "your" amarr navy arma over ANY t1 battleship any day. That includes 200 man fleets, rr gangs and stuff. ISK is NOT an issue for some people and knowing corp/alliance mates - at least 1/3 of the gangs would be filled with "imbageddons". By T1 I read tier 1, not Tech 1 because faction are tech 1. That's nice your corp would have 1/3 of their gangs made up of faction armas. Then they will lose 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 of them and eventually wise up and go back to vanilla BS. Quote: We already did them, so whats your point? My point is that because you did a faction BS gang for the luls doesn't mean that has much of a bearing on PvP in EVE. Quote: And having cheaper ship (LP wise and this goes straight into isk - if demand is higher it means there are much more farmers farming LPs to fill that demand gap. Quote: Would kill part of the the "uniqueness" of guardian-vexor. Who cares? The double digits (or however many) of people with guardian-vexors will get over it. Quote: Like i said: for poor people "pricetag" might be a problem. I come from quite rich alliance and losing faction battleships is not a big problem here. Rattlers (being the tankiest faction bs) are not used because they plain suck. Sorry, I doubt your alliance puts a significant number of pirate BS into PvP. Quote: If people plan to invest 2-5bil into active tank for a ship they wont use rattler or scorpion that scorp is a passive tanker... Quote: quoting went haywire I noticed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.03 21:51:00 - [12] Alright, I'm done arguing. All I really want is tier 1 and (especially) tier 3 faction BS. If they all come out with the standard faction BS upgrades, I'll still be quite happy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.04 07:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Beet HeadIn my opinion, faction ships shouldn't even have different stats than their tech 1 market counterparts. They should be visually different, and perhaps have gameplay tie-ins to FW/missions. Balancing the base ship lineup is a nightmare even without all the crazy variants.[/quote Your opinion is that faction BS should serve as nothing but a tool for FW mechanics and missions? Then, sir, your idea is stupid. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.04 20:38:00 - [14] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 04/01/2009 20:47:48 Originally by: Roemy Schneider seriously, dude... you're almost doubling the domi damage Do they not teach math in school anymore? I will break it down for you. 50% bonus at lvl five BS -> 5 drones x 1.5 = 7.5 drones effective swapping this bonus for +1 drones per lvl @ lvl 5 BS -> 10 drones 10/7.5 = 1.333 = 33.3% drone damage increase. 33.3% is not equal to or even close to 100%. Once again, that's thirty-three point three percent (33.3%) Quote: and you want to project that onto a battleship. The scorp does not have the naturally boosted resistances of the damnation, or it's 25% resistance bonus from skills. That being said it would have awesome tanking potential. Quote: and let's not forget that it "tanks" with ECM on top of that I changed the ECM str bonus to 5% launcher rof. Still not sure about that one though. Even if it had the ECM bonus, fitting 2 or more ECM would severely reduce its tanking abilities. Quote: and you want to project that onto a battleship. I've thought about it, I've done the math. Based on your insistence that I've "nearly doubled" the domi's damage you probably haven't done one, the other, or both. I base this on the fact that you either can't divide 10/7.5, or you really don't think things through before you post them, because you didn't see that the 10% drone hp/dmg is replaced by +1 drone, not added to it. Quote: the damnation is insanely out of whack due to combining its 10%HP bonus with 1600mm rolled, trimarks, ganglinks and the mindlink It's only insanely out of whack in it's ability to take a lot of damage before it pops. Bait cyno damnations are great, but I wouldn't consider the ship a PvP powerhouse. Quote: you're cumulating in very much the same way You say this like it was not my intent. Originally by: Spike 68 several of those ships are crazy overpowered. None of them are even close to crazy overpowered. If I had added a mid to the arma and left it's drone bay/bandwidth at 125, THAT would be crazy overpowered. If I had swapped the domi turret dmg bonus for the +1 drones per lvl (giving it the effectiveness of 15 drones) THAT would be crazy overpowered. Quote: Also we already have faction scorps and geddons. Deva already answered this one. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.05 17:58:00 - [15] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 05/01/2009 18:05:56 Originally by: darkmancer Reach out and touch someone. The ultimate sniper ship, also allows a sensible tackle fit on a Blokh. Regardless of whether people put blasters on them or not, Rokhs are not meant to use blasters they are meant to use rails. Quote: Ultimate heavy tackler? qiuite capable of disabling and enemy gang, quite capable of disabling your own too. Bonus's do not apply to regular ecm. This makes me think of the orc that carries the torch into the gunpowder at Helms Deep. The other problem is you've basically given that scorp four bonuses, not two. Quote: Navy Domi +1 extra drone / lvl +20% tracking & optimal (no drone health bonus's) awsome drone damage from both heavy & sentry, those drones are looking awful fragile now thou. Similar to mine except drone tracking and optimal bonus. Although 20% per level might be a little much. 100% bonus to opti and tracking plus 3 omni links would be pretty crazy. With 3 omnis and 2 sentry dmg rigs you would have 94km optimal, .113 tracking and 718 dps from a rack of Garde 2s. Quote: Navy hyperion +10% web strenght / lvl +5% rof +1 low I wouldn't be totally against this. I hate active tanking blaster boats. Quote: navy abaddon +10% tracking disruptor / lvl -20 energy turret cap use / lvl +1 mid This one makes zero sense to me. You take an amazing PvP boat and turn it into an EW Apoc. Amarr have what they need for TDs, and they are quite excellent. Quote: Typhoon fleet I. +150% afterburner speed /lvl +5% project & missile damage. Woah. 150% per level? So 918.75% boost at lvl5 BS?! Here's one that what's his/her name can whine about being crazy OP. Quote: Maelstorm fleet I. +7.5% rof +10% falloff +1 mid This ship suffers, to me, the same problem as a lot of your other suggestions: it is significantly different from its original version. Your rokh is now a blaster boat. The hyp and maelstrom are no longer active tankers. The high DPS, huge buffer tank abaddon is now basically an EW apoc. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:03:00 - [16] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 05/01/2009 18:07:01 Originally by: Letifer Deus I'd so buy that... though for lag issues that people complain about, you could just give it the same bonus as a moros, 50% dmg per level. I mean, seriously? How do people keep not getting this. +1 drones is not equal, or even close to 50% dmg per lvl. 50% damage per lvl gives the equivalent of 17.5 drones, +1 drones per lvl gives ten drones. 17.5 is not equal to 10. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.06 00:33:00 - [17] Originally by: Omu Negru why not faction BC? No reason, I simply haven't made any up yet. Quote: why not droping the faction cruisers prices too? 270K LP is too much... I don't think the prices are terrible on the cruisers, maybe a tiny bit, but not much. Quote: why not ballancing all the faction items. Some of them are usless to buy. Good idea. Quote: Anyway. Good idea. Still I think this is and will remain just a dream. Unfortunately, I also doubt more faction BS or faction BCs will come in any time soon. I really don't get why, it is not that hard to come out with reasonably balanced specs. If I can do it (to some extent), I don't see why someone at CCP can't sit down with a six pack of beer or a bottle of whatever Icelanders drink and come up with some well polished ships to throw on SISI for testing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.06 17:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Lando Tradetard tbh i can live with no more faction bs, but bcs would truely be awesome. Tier 1 faction BS I could certainly live without, but I would really like to see some faction tier 3s. Faction tier 2 BCs would also be pretty dang slick. Quote: but imho they should take care of the existing factionships, especially cruisers, first. pirate faction cruisers are total fail... thinking of the ashimmu, cynabal,... Vigilant is pretty mediocre, too. Quote: also icelanders drink BRENNIVIN! Schnapps?! I remove that part then, said faction ship making CCP man isn't allowed to sit down with a bottle of schnapps. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"

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